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What not to do. Started by Alex at 06-08-2005 11:28 AM. Topic has 16 replies. Deleted Logic C... » Social Society » Foreign Relatio... » What not to do.

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06-08-2005, 11:28 AM Alex Joined on 06-07-2005 Posts 5 What not to do. This is a bad example of what not to do in a war/pecekeeping mission: http://soldf.e.kth.se/mbt_vs_car.avi What should be done to minimice the ingnorance of soildiers around the world so that these things dont happen?    Report

06-08-2005, 10:14 PM Michael Sarver Joined on 02-16-2005 A Special Place Posts 149 Re: What not to do. See... I had a slightly different take on that one. Instead of following the bias that the reporter setup at the start, I figured that any other occupying army would have just shot them dead in the street. At the time, there was no working Police force to arrest them and the soldiers were only taking hostile prisoners... Not civilian criminals. Had they simply turned the men  loose, there would be outrage from other Iraqi citizens to the effect that Americans don't care about crime in the occupied area. What solution do you suggest? I haven't thought of one, but maybe you have. It does seem pretty harsh when one watches from the comfort of their PC... but in light of all the death and chaos going on, I think it went well. One of the problems our troops are facing is that this has never been done before. Our forces have never occupied and tried to rebuild a nation so most of it is learn as you go. After a much worse incident in which a family was killed while trying to run an American blockade, there is a new procedure for handling such events. Much of what needs to be done is being done: Learning from real tragedies. This video is on the lighter side of war. If politicians could put aside the rule book and their own "moral code" (Hard to type that with a straight face!), we would have better invasion plans. When invading populated areas, we should block them off, fumigate them with marijuana smoke and wait for them to surrender so they can get the humanitarian aid that will be just outside the cities. I'm not trying to be funny... burritos cost less than the bullets we use and dope grows easily. Some folks think poison or CS gas is a better alternative. Not me... I think war can be fun. Just replace the mines with banana peels for area denial. Seriously... There are little yellow Teflon strips that you can lay on roads so cars just slip around and can't pass. Sounds a lot better than gunning down a family trying to flee for their lives, doesn't it? There are much better solutions to a bullet in the head and I happen to think a tank parking on my car would be more suitable. Hell... If I only had to count on that and not jail time, I'd buy a ford pinto and start robbing banks. There has to be a need before it can be filled. Put that fact together with there only being two months for Basic Combat Training and I'll ask you where our soldiers are supposed to learn these new tricks without added funding. Also... Email me your avatar so I can upload it. It doesn't seem to be working. shadegolem@hotmail.com "I did something naughty again..."    Report

06-13-2005, 8:56 PM Smokin@420.bud Joined on 05-29-2005 State of Euphoria Posts 77 Re: What not to do. hey can i join the other side that is if you really want to fumigate them with marijuana smoke,  ill never surrender but keep fumigating though  LOL LMAO ===> If I only had to count on that and not jail time, I'd buy a ford pinto and start robbing banks.   what the hell are these guys supposed to do with looters they cant shoot them or arrest them we would have to build more jails for that  so in the situation i saw they did the best they could with what they had   If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier.    Report

06-14-2005, 5:54 AM Alex Joined on 06-07-2005 Posts 5 Re: What not to do. They did their best to make the situation worse. make a stance and take what they took from others. Won't stop it but driving over the car will not help in anyway at all, most likley only make it worse. Now he'll have to steal everything to survive You have a good point with using pot, maybe its not such a good idea lmao    Report

06-16-2005, 11:46 AM chrisderfuhrer Joined on 06-16-2005 Posts 10 Re: What not to do.  Alex wrote: They did their best to make the situation worse. make a stance and take what they took from others. Won't stop it but driving over the car will not help in anyway at all, most likley only make it worse. Now he'll have to steal everything to survive You have a good point with using pot, maybe its not such a good idea lmao   Don't take this the wrong way Alex, but I think you live in a fantasy world and don't fully understand how things work.  In my opinion the problems in Iraq are due to the fact that the US and allies are not being heavy handed enough.  The culture in the mid-east is diffrent than the culture in Western Europe and the US. In order to have control in that area of the world you need to use a very big stick. If they want to blow up oil pipelines and police stations then kill their family.  They will then think twice about what they do.  I know you sissy swedes like you talk about understanding different cultures, but the only way things like this will stop is when the culture in the mideast changes to a less violent one.    Report

06-17-2005, 12:14 AM Michael Sarver Joined on 02-16-2005 A Special Place Posts 149 Re: What not to do. Where are they suppsed to take it? Logistically... Strapping a  pile of furnature to a tank isn't that easy. It'll all fall off anyway. Then you get blamed for looting the seccond a civilian or reporter unfamiliar with the story sees an armoir-bearing Abrams. And what do you do with the property? Keep it? Sell it? By they way... I happen to live in a fantasy world too. This is one corner of it. So please keep off the grass... It's still budding. "I did something naughty again..."    Report

06-17-2005, 9:45 AM chrisderfuhrer Joined on 06-16-2005 Posts 10 Re: What not to do.  Michael Sarver wrote: ... I happen to live in a fantasy world too. This is one corner of it. So please keep off the grass... It's still budding.   Is that a polite way of telling me to hit the road? Anyways, I also find it strange how some people like to point out all the horrible things the US is doing, but they never say "How not to do things" then post a image of some nut job cutting off the head of contractors from the west and their own country.    Report

06-17-2005, 10:21 AM Smokin@420.bud Joined on 05-29-2005 State of Euphoria Posts 77 Re: What not to do. Your right Chris we should of done it Right and just totaly taken over?   whats with War anymore we cant invade and conquer we have to fight and then give it back to them WTF is with that Iraq and Afganistan should be US Territories Right Now   With one main Law only Military forces are allowed to Carry Automactic Weapons anyone seen carring Automactic Weapons will be Shot on site    im not talking about taking that Afgani Yak hunters rifle away he needs to feed his family  just things Like AKs and Uzis you know war weapons   BTW on Fastasy World  you gotta visit the State of Euphoria some time its the Best If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier.    Report

06-17-2005, 11:56 AM Michael Sarver Joined on 02-16-2005 A Special Place Posts 149 Re: What not to do. Damnit... All are allowed and welcome here. So no... I'm not telling anyone to hit the road. If you read any of my blog, you'll see what I mean about a fantasy world. Reality is subjective and all of the world is one. Everywhere I travel is simply an extension of the Valley of the Dead (Lake Elsinore, Temecula, Wildomar, Perris, Mo -Val... Highway 138 is Grand Avenue's bitch of a mother. The Rock Mountain Range is the older sibling of The Ortegas. I am another yourself... So why would I abandon you? This forum is just another  microcosmic extension of that essential unity. But I've given away too much now. Soon the aliens that have been leading our government to enslave us will order my execution. HA! They can go fuck themselves. Even though I believe in that particular theory, I don't think it matters. I'm not bound to these meager three dimensions anymore, so what they do to my body is of little concern. When the Anunaki come, I won't bother to give the proper mantra... I am beyond the service of that "Lord". "I did something naughty again..."    Report

06-18-2005, 10:28 AM Alex Joined on 06-07-2005 Posts 5 Re: What not to do.  chrisderfuhrer wrote:  Alex wrote: They did their best to make the situation worse. make a stance and take what they took from others. Won't stop it but driving over the car will not help in anyway at all, most likley only make it worse. Now he'll have to steal everything to survive You have a good point with using pot, maybe its not such a good idea lmao   Don't take this the wrong way Alex, but I think you live in a fantasy world and don't fully understand how things work.  In my opinion the problems in Iraq are due to the fact that the US and allies are not being heavy handed enough.  The culture in the mid-east is diffrent than the culture in Western Europe and the US. In order to have control in that area of the world you need to use a very big stick. If they want to blow up oil pipelines and police stations then kill their family.  They will then think twice about what they do.  I know you sissy swedes like you talk about understanding different cultures, but the only way things like this will stop is when the culture in the mideast changes to a less violent one. I'm not the one living in a fantasy world These are people who arn't much different from us, its easy to see what they want, just see what you would have wanted in the same situation, would you sit down and watch an invading force take over your country and destroying your property (just think if someone would take your hamster porn collection you would cry and take out revence, or just dive under the bed, not sure what you would do but i would defenetly strike back, wether or not they removed a tyranic leader. If you invade Sweden you would defenetly see me there with an AK5 and every weapon i could get hand of. To think that these people want their property destroyed, country invaded, is just foolish. And yes the culture is different, and whats your point? You take the culture as it is at the location. To use force to get people to listen to you is just plain stupid. It might work on some but not the majority. Understanding will help alot. PS by this i'm not including al queda, thats another matter.    Report

06-20-2005, 7:04 AM chrisderfuhrer Joined on 06-16-2005 Posts 10 Re: What not to do.  Alex wrote:  chrisderfuhrer wrote:  Alex wrote: They did their best to make the situation worse. make a stance and take what they took from others. Won't stop it but driving over the car will not help in anyway at all, most likley only make it worse. Now he'll have to steal everything to survive You have a good point with using pot, maybe its not such a good idea lmao   Don't take this the wrong way Alex, but I think you live in a fantasy world and don't fully understand how things work.  In my opinion the problems in Iraq are due to the fact that the US and allies are not being heavy handed enough.  The culture in the mid-east is diffrent than the culture in Western Europe and the US. In order to have control in that area of the world you need to use a very big stick. If they want to blow up oil pipelines and police stations then kill their family.  They will then think twice about what they do.  I know you sissy swedes like you talk about understanding different cultures, but the only way things like this will stop is when the culture in the mideast changes to a less violent one. I'm not the one living in a fantasy world These are people who arn't much different from us, its easy to see what they want, just see what you would have wanted in the same situation, would you sit down and watch an invading force take over your country and destroying your property (just think if someone would take your hamster porn collection you would cry and take out revence, or just dive under the bed, not sure what you would do but i would defenetly strike back, wether or not they removed a tyranic leader. If you invade Sweden you would defenetly see me there with an AK5 and every weapon i could get hand of. To think that these people want their property destroyed, country invaded, is just foolish. And yes the culture is different, and whats your point? You take the culture as it is at the location. To use force to get people to listen to you is just plain stupid. It might work on some but not the majority. Understanding will help alot. PS by this i'm not including al queda, thats another matter.   What are you basing your thoughts on? Which parts are similar? What do they want?  What should the US be doing? How should they handle it?  Should they just leave? What do you think would happen if they left? You say that if an invading force took over my country that I would be doing the same thing. Highly unlikely. I would not be strapping bombs to myself and blowing up markets. I would not be parking car bombs in front of polling places. And if it just so happened that someone like Saddam was in power before then I would be more likely to work the liberators. Not only because they got rid of a dickhead, but because  working with them would make the damn Mexican and Canadian peacekeepers get the hell out quicker.  Are you telling me that if Sweden had a ruler like Saddam was and then some outside country decided throw him out, you would be doing what the terrorists in Iraq are doing? Would you blow up markets?  Cut off civilian contracter's heads? Blow up your own country's infastructure? Or would you do whatever you could to get things back to normal, so  that your country could run itsself again? Answer those questions honestly, then  tell me how similar the cultures between the west and the mid-east are.     Report

06-20-2005, 7:24 AM chrisderfuhrer Joined on 06-16-2005 Posts 10 Re: What not to do. Also Alex, where are the "what not do examples" where the insurgents are the stars? Tell me something. If this was an Iraqi tank running over a Kuwaiti car in the early 90's would have you said the same thing?  Where were all the people like you when Iraq invading Kuwait? Ohhh yeah you were all too busy protesting the US action that was about to be taken.(not you or I of course. We were too young at the time)  Where is the criticism of the actions of French troops in Africa? Why are you only vocal about what the US is doing? It's one thing to be critical but don't you think people should apply their high standards across the board?  So when are you going to post some video of a car bomb blowing up a market with the title "What not to do"??????  http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=2004-11-france-ivory-coast <---- what really should not be done.    Report

06-20-2005, 12:17 PM Alex Joined on 06-07-2005 Posts 5 Re: What not to do. Fist, I happened to see this video. I can post beheading videos and condeming them, sure but, I do not want to see something like that ever, so there would be no point in posting on a video I haven't nor want to see because of the horrific sight that is. I doubt any of you would feel good about seeing them, unless something is messed up with you. But yes that is an unspeacable act of utter discust. This is a lighter subject with a car being crushed, unless you make love to cars () If this was an Iraqi tank doing this to a kuwaits car, and knew the language I would be doing the same on those forums. But firstly, didn't have a computer at that time, didn't know the language, never seen a video of it happening, still can't speak that language and still havent seen a video featuring Iraqi tanks running over someones car in Kuwait. Also, I know of no people around me that protested the action in Kuwait, I also bet that there ware less resistence regarding that mission then that of Iraq that is going on now. I have been debating the Ivory cost action taken by the french troops killing civilian with several people from france. Sorry to disapoint you, it was not on this forum, not a forum at all for that matter. I'm vocal about this because it was a video I came across, no other countries was of my knowlage involved in this specific insident, this was also directed towards those soldiers that was involved in this insident, this regaring all that do these things, specificly the soldiers involved in these kinds of episodes of any country origin. Quote by me: "What should be done to minimice the ingnorance of soildiers around the world so that these things dont happen?" This is about the specific incident that the video shows, regarding any country and its troops, wheter it being the French, Swedish or American. "Anyways, I also find it strange how some people like to point out all the horrible things the US is doing, but they never say "How not to do things" then post a image of some nut job cutting off the head of contractors from the west and their own country." Aswell as: "Don't take this the wrong way Alex, but I think you live in a fantasy world and don't fully understand how things work.  In my opinion the problems in Iraq are due to the fact that the US and allies are not being heavy handed enough.  The culture in the mid-east is diffrent than the culture in Western Europe and the US. In order to have control in that area of the world you need to use a very big stick. If they want to blow up oil pipelines and police stations then kill their family.  They will then think twice about what they do.  I know you sissy swedes like you talk about understanding different cultures, but the only way things like this will stop is when the culture in the mideast changes to a less violent one." Its by these post it becomes about US operations in Iraq rather then the specific thing (mostly the second quote), I did not point out the "horrible things the US is doing" I' pointing out what these specific soldiers are doing, they happen to be American soldiers that has nothing to do with the original issue, what so ever. But you happen to take it as a rant against what and how the US is handling the day to day issues in Iraq, I do however think that these soldiers did the wrong thing, I've already staded what I think they should have done instead and the reasons for why I think that. Michael right thing by comenting on my response regarding my sulotion, that after he comented seemed a bit hard to do, but none the less, driving the car over didn't make things better either, and posibly or even most likley made the situation, and the persons involved more distant to the presense of these soldiers. Your way to refere (as how i see it) the cultural difference as a reson to use more "heavy handed" is just pusseling, I'm not sure how culture (besides Al Quedas Extreemists) can be a reason to be more heavy handed against the citicense. Reagarding if I would shop heads of and such, no I would defenetly not, but if someone is or would be threatening my property and loved once I would defenetly take a weapon and start defending this, like you would. I have a hard time seeing that you wouldn't, if you ware dependent on it to make it the next day or next week. Sorry a bit big reply, but i thought it was needed. Also, there is a slight change in font sice etc in some places of the reply and those ware not intended to be like that, but failing to correct it I'm stuck with those things.      Report

06-25-2005, 11:39 PM Reefer Joined on 02-10-2005 Κάπου πάρα πολύ όμορφος για καθέναν αλλά με. Posts 105 Re: What not to do. WoooooHOOOOO!!! Mike, this reminds me of the DeletedLogic of old...  Nothin like a good bitch-slappin, angry typin' word fight to get the hate a risin'. Good times.  I enjoyed reading everyones arguements... one thing though, GRAMMER and SPELLING MOTHER FUCKERS!! Night.    Report

06-26-2005, 1:16 PM Alex Joined on 06-07-2005 Posts 5 Re: What not to do.  Reefer wrote: WoooooHOOOOO!!! Mike, this reminds me of the DeletedLogic of old...  Nothin like a good bitch-slappin, angry typin' word fight to get the hate a risin'. Good times.  I enjoyed reading everyones arguements... one thing though, GRAMMER and SPELLING MOTHER FUCKERS!! Night.   How nice, like every post in here besides yours, wohoo!    Report

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